1 1 2 Your Rights as a Business and Leisure Traveler with a Disability. 3 Presented by: Aaron McCullough. 4 5 >> Jacquie: Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to today's Web 6 cast: Planes, Trains, Automobiles, Ferries, Cruise Ships, Hotel and 7 Resorts, et cetera: Your Rights as a Business and Leisure Traveler with a 8 Disability. This Web cast is presented by Aaron McCullough, who is an 9 attorney who focuses his practice on discrimination law. 10 This Web cast is sponsored by the National Institute on Disablity and 11 Rehabilitation Research, NIDRR, who funds your host of today's program. 12 I'm your moderator, Jacquie Brennan, and I'm with the ILRU project. I will 13 be assisting with today's presentation. 14 For those of you who are listening, to submit your questions, click on 15 the e-mail button on your screen or you can e-mail your questions directly 16 at webcastilru.org. If you have any technical difficulties today, you can 17 call us at (713) 520-0232. Thanks for joining us today. 18 I now introduce to you Aaron McCullough. Thank you for being here 19 today, Aaron. 20 >> Aaron: Good afternoon. Thank you, Jacquie. It's good to 21 be here. 22 >> Jacquie: Well, tell us all we need to know about all this. 23 >> Aaron: Well, I'm going to tell you this at the very 24 beginning. Travel provides a great deal of barriers with people with 25 disabilities, despite protective laws. To be honest, that's because it 2 1 presents a problem for everything. It's a pain. Even as somebody who's 2 going on vacation and has well planned it, there are unanticipated 3 realities that you just cannot solve. But these are particularly pointed 4 at people with disabilities. 5 What I'm here to talk about today is a couple of the laws that protect 6 people with disabilities, and those rights are the same. But how you 7 approach your travel is a little different for business versus leisure. 8 Planning is the key difference there. I'm going to talk about 9 opportunities to enhance your experiences, perhaps some resources that you 10 can tap that will ease your burdens that will warn you of travel barriers. 11 I'm going to assume that most of the listeners understand that there 12 is a set of civil rights protection in this country called the Americans 13 with Disabilities Act. I'm not going to assume that everyone is an expert 14 on it, but I am going to thumbnail that. I'm also going to talk about the 15 Air Carrier Access Act, a law that predates the ADA and provides -- I'm 16 also going to talk about rail travel and over-the-road bus travel -- the 17 Greyhound, which is almost a monopoly in this country. 18 I've laid out a fairly complicated buffet. I think the best training 19 and the best Web casts are generated from participants questions, and I'm 20 going to try to leave as much time as possible after thumbnailing the law 21 and other contents to entertain your questions. So I want you to send in 22 dozens and dozens of questions. If we're unable to answer your related 23 question online, then I will personally get back with you and answer that 24 via e-mail. So please leave an e-mail address that is actually a good 25 e-mail address with your question just in case we can't get yours lined up. 3 1 Let's start. I think the best place to start is an overview of the 2 law. The Americans with Disabilities Act is the newest, broadest scoped 3 civil rights act passed in the United States. However, it's not that new. 4 It's about to celebrate, this coming summer, its 18th anniversary of the 5 signing. Most of the enforcement dates written into the law and in the 6 subsequent regulations have all since passed. There's nothing in the ADA 7 regulations that is perspective. So everything needs to be enforced right 8 now. Does that mean that we're at 100 percent enforcement? I think all of 9 you in the real world know we haven't. We've certainly made some gains in 10 accessing places of accommodation and accessing governmental program and 11 facilities. Certainly, new construction is more accessible than it used to 12 be. But we're nowhere near the full compliance. 13 To that end, related to travel, those elements of travel also 14 typically have to comply. The Americans with Disabilities Act covers 15 public transportation providers such as Greyhound, such as Amtrak, such as 16 the facilities that allow you to access air carriers such as private 17 airports. Those terminals need to be accessible. 18 In addition, hotels and motels have certain obligations even if they 19 are existing and unaltered facilities. Hotels have an obligation to 20 provide an accessible room. But essentially, 2 percent of the specific of 21 those requirements are detailed in the Americans with Disabilities Act 22 accessibility guidelines. But in those large hotels, 2 percent of the 23 rooms have to have wheelchair accessibility. In addition, certain 24 accommodations within those sleeping rooms must be made with people with 25 hearing impairments -- and again, essentially, 2 percent and not less than 4 1 one of those rooms needs to be accessible for people with hearing 2 impairment. There's very specific guidelines as to what that means in 3 terms of how those rooms are designed and what communication features are 4 needed to meet the hotel and motel guests with hearing impairments. 5 Again, most travel destinations aren't just about getting on a train 6 or a plane or a bus and checking into a hotel. They are about aspects of 7 amusement and recreation when you get there. Spa facilities, including 8 outdoor recreational facilities -- to a certain extent, amusement parks, 9 restaurants and clubs. 10 Again, there are a set of specific guidelines for many of these 11 occupancies for the facilities under the Americans with Disabilities Act. 12 Regrettably, a great deal of recreational facilities that you might 13 associate with travel, a great deal of outdoor amusement areas and 14 amusement parks are not going to be specifically covered by the Americans 15 with Disabilities Act. The ADA accessibility guidelines there aren't 16 specific regulations detailing what an accessible golf course, swimming 17 pool, spa club or amusement ride actually is. 18 Essentially, they have to set an enforcement day, such as safe harbor 19 and then, again, wave their magic regulatory wand and make these guidelines 20 accessible. That's not to say these aren't good guidelines. Those people 21 who are running a golf course or spa facility should seriously look at what 22 the access board and all the nongovernmental entities use in creating these 23 recommended guidelines. 24 I would say it would be bad form for, let's say a resort owner to say, 25 well, we've made our lodging facility part of our resort accessible; but we 5 1 don't have any clear requirements to make our golf course or our spa 2 facility or our swimming pool accessible. They're generally required to be 3 accessible under the general nondiscrimination requirements under the ADA. 4 And as I indicated, there are a set of proposed guidelines that we keep 5 hearing are going to be enforceable soon. I laugh about that because the 6 joke is it's always the spring after this one. When it's next spring, 7 it'll still be the spring after. We should have an updated set of 8 guidelines -- those traveling with recreational and leisure facilities that 9 are destination -- destination is a part of business and leisure travel. 10 What about when I get off the plane? How do I get -- or get off a 11 train or bus when I reach my destination? How do I get to my final 12 destination at the end of my travels? Looking at the law, how do most 13 people travel? They either get picked up by somebody. Imagine yourself 14 flying into Baltimore airport and taking a light rail Amtrak into the DC 15 area. A number of -- some folks hire private transportation services, 16 limousine services. Other people take taxi cabs. 17 The Americans with Disabilities Act does govern the behavior of taxi 18 cab services. The regulations are very detailed -- I'm going to say 19 somewhat limited in terms of making them truly accessible to a broad range 20 of people with disabilities. Essentially this, providers of taxi cab 21 services cannot deny their services to somebody based on disability -- the 22 general nondiscrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act. If 23 that's what they buy, then they're allowed to buy that, even though it's 24 not accessible to someone using a power chair. They are, again, not 25 required to provide personal assistance services. But anybody who can 6 1 avail themselves of their services by transferring into the back, say, of a 2 sedan is allowed to use their services; and they cannot deny their 3 services. They have to be able to stow mobility aids, and they are not 4 allowed to charge more for providing that service than they would provide 5 for stowing someone's luggage. And if they don't provide for stowing 6 luggage, then they can't charge for stowing someone's mobility aid. 7 Now, a lot of cab companies are moving to vans. But most of those 8 vans have seating capacities of below the level that would be required by 9 the Department of Transportation to provide those services. The good news 10 is if they have -- the question is how do you determine whether or not a 11 transportation provider -- a taxi cab provider -- does have accessible 12 vehicles? The easy answer would be to look at your destination city and 13 call up all the cab companies and ask them how that's best arranged and get 14 an agreement with you to meet you at a particular time or a time line with 15 which they would respond to a request for wheelchair accessibility. 16 There may be a better resource. There's an organization called 17 Project Action that is hosted by the Easter Sale Organization. It is 18 focused on educating the public on what's available. They have a database 19 for travelers on accessible services that you can search by city, state, or 20 zip code. Yesterday, I ran a search on my zip code and came up with 39 21 results of transportation providers that claim to provide wheelchair 22 accessible services. Now, some of these are actually hotels that provide 23 regular shuttle bus services and claim they can provide services for their 24 guests who arrive from the airport or their vehicle. They provide a phone 25 number and a link to that service. This is project action.easterseals.com. 7 1 I would encourage you -- if you have a concern, this might be a first place 2 to look. 3 In addition, they also provide the contact information for the 4 Metropolitan Transportation Agency of Harris County and a contact for Metro 5 lift, which kind of leads me into my next project. 6 Can you require demand response transportation to those on a temporary 7 basis, let's say for a short-term holiday visitor or a business traveler 8 who would be eligible for those services where they're from? So somebody 9 who would be eligible for complimentary services, provide the kind of 10 notice and contact the agency that provides that service. Again, that 11 process is pretty straightforward but does require some forward thinking. 12 Just showing up at the airport is going to guarantee a service denial. 13 Accessible vans -- any number of travelers that travel as part of 14 their advocacy education or to national or regional conferences may avail 15 themselves to accessible van rentals so they can transport themselves and 16 some of their compatriots. 17 What about rental cars? They have certain obligations under the 18 Americans with Disabilities Act, and each and every major rental car 19 provider can potentially provide access to, let's say, hand controls. But 20 again, this is something that requires some forward thinking, and you need 21 to contact that rental car company. If anybody has questions about that we 22 can go into specifics with that question. 23 We talked about the destination. We've talked about the hotel and 24 getting there. How do you get to your destination? Well, we mentioned 25 five. I mentioned the Air Carrier Access Act. The Air Carrier Access Act 8 1 or the ACAA was enacted in 1986, and the regulations that breathe life into 2 the law came into effect almost four years later. It's also been amended. 3 Large passenger air carriers have been obliged to provide services to 4 people with disabilities since this time. They vary on carrier to carrier 5 on how responsive they are with people with disabilities and how responsive 6 they are after they travel in receiving complaints and/or resolving 7 equipment issues. This act covers the responsibility of large passenger 8 providers of air passenger services with regards to people with mobility 9 aids -- who have mobility conditions, such as hearing or vision 10 impairments. The Air Carrier Access Act provides people with medical 11 devices such as oxygen in airplanes -- someone who needs a particular 12 medical equipment that may need to be carried on with them because of how 13 critical it is but pushes them over the allowed carry on. So it gets that 14 finite as to what the rights of the passengers are and what the airport 15 obligations are. The air carrier obligation is, again, separate from the 16 airport. The air carriers are a separate entity. The regulations have 17 been added to and have been modified in the intervening 22 years, since the 18 passage of the law. They are requiring level entry boarding, mechanical 19 lists, other devices for smaller aircrafts than they did before. 20 As you might imagine, when the law was passed, the existing fleet of 21 aircraft in passenger service weren't necessarily accessible. Some of them 22 had been designed in the 50s and built in the 60s and are still in service. 23 But again, as the air carrier fleet changes, as this law has been in 24 effect, the regulations have been, again, amended to reflect the changes in 25 engineering and aircraft. 9 1 Let's say our flag is in another country and provides service into and 2 out of the state. There are no regulations as to what the specific 3 responsibilities of foreign carriers are. It's expected that the DOT will 4 offer a specific amendment. I hope it's very soon. There may be delays. 5 What about air travel to destinations other than the 48 continental 6 states in the United States? There aren't a lot of problems flying into 7 Alaska, but Hawaii provides some problems. It presents particular 8 difficulties for people with disabilities who travel with service animals. 9 So this brings up the broader service animal question. The Air 10 Carrier Access Act and the ADA does protect those travelers who have 11 service animals as defined under the Americans with Disabilities Act and 12 the same definition under the Air Carrier Access Act. It does protect 13 people who travel with service animals. Again, with appropriate notice, as 14 required by the law, it's just good practice for a traveler. A service 15 animal can be accommodated on a passenger aircraft, bus, or train and must 16 be allowed into hotels and motels along with its human companion. Again, 17 this covers service animals as defined under the Americans with 18 Disabilities Act which the DOJ guidelines has suggested. It's truly an 19 animal that has been trained. 20 We are a nation that loves our pets. We are a nation that is 21 increasingly, I would say, jealous of the companionship of our pets. But 22 pets aren't service animals, and service animals aren't pets. But that's 23 an entirely different Web cast and one that we've done before. 24 >> Jacquie: What about -- you were talking about Hawaii. 25 >> Aaron: I'm going to get into that, because Hawaii has some 10 1 much bigger hoops that you must jump through. In no place in the Americans 2 with Disabilities Act or the Air Carrier Access Act does it say that you 3 must have an ID or badge for that animal. If you're going to do a great 4 deal of travel, despite the fact it's not required, I would encourage you 5 to get that. 6 Some service animals weren't trained in the large historical training 7 facilities, such as the Seeing Eye. Most service animals are trained by 8 individuals with the assistance of trainers. Some are trained at smaller 9 facilities that don't offer certifications. My answer to that is dummy up 10 your ID. There's nothing wrong with it. Since they're not required under 11 law, you're not committing a fraud by putting the law on a piece of card. 12 Print a picture of the animal and laminate it to make it look somewhat 13 official. I'm going to say that from the practical side. They use that to 14 avoid all sorts of headaches in just navigating their own town and travel. 15 For those folks who have an animal that was trained in an academy that 16 offers certification, I encourage you to get a copy of that, despite the 17 fact that you're not required to provide that. An ID, a badge, a cape is 18 going to ease the way for you. 19 I've had people ask me where can I get these? Well, there are a 20 number of organizations that will provide patches, that will sell you 21 equipment for capes. You can get some of this stuff on eBay. 22 Getting back to the Hawaii issue. Hawaii has no rabies, and they have 23 a whole list of prohibited animals. Those animals are going to be subject 24 to an animal quarantine under the Hawaii Department of Agriculture 25 Regulations. Now, this is a huge concern because this is a 120-day 11 1 quarantine. Well, a weeklong vacation does not make a good trip for your 2 service animal. So that developed a protocol that is a little more user 3 friendly. If you can anticipate your trip ahead of time, you can go to a 4 recognized medical facility, get your dog inoculated, get a check up, have 5 a blood test, and also have an identification chip and plant it in your 6 dog. These are the identification chips that many pet owners use to ensure 7 pet recovery. But again this is a pretty forward looking policy. For more 8 information about that, you can go to the hawaii.gov site and get answers 9 about all this. Your animal will potentially be eligible for a five day or 10 less program, assuming that you follow this fairly lengthy protocol in 11 front of your travel. So if you're anticipating an extended visit and you 12 want to utilize your service animal and you're going to Hawaii, you need to 13 be very forward thinking, at least six months in advance. 14 That doesn't solve all the problems for all travels by any means. 15 Does that answer your question, Jacquie? 16 >> Jacquie: Yes. 17 >> Aaron: Okay. Let's see. We're going to talk about buses. 18 There are other over-the-road buses and I'm saying city-to-city bus 19 providers that aren't part of a transportation system. Back in the day 20 when I was a kid, there were multiple providers. There was Trailways. 21 There was Midwest and certainly Greyhound. At this point, there's only 22 Greyhound and the companies that they have acquired. 23 The Greyhound is required to provide accessible services under the 24 Americans with Disabilities Act and under a settlement with the U.S. 25 Department of Justice and U.S. Department of Transportation to where they 12 1 need to be provided accessible fleet service by the year 2003. Well, 2 that's passed quite some time ago, and there were even obligations in 3 there. But what are the obligations after 2001? Essentially, under the 4 DOT settlement, Greyhound and other providers need to provide lift 5 equipment bus services to passengers at every location they serve with 48 6 hours notice. The goal is, eventually, the entire fleet is going to age 7 out, and every bus is going to be lift equipped and passengers will no 8 longer have to provide that notice. 9 Then, looking at the Greyhound Web site, they're still carrying part 10 of their fleet that is not accessible. So they're not at that point. 11 Basically, any vehicle that they purchased since 1998 has some lift 12 features and some space inside for people who utilize wheelchairs to travel 13 in their chairs and/or to transfer. Again, every one that they bought 14 since then, every bus that they bought forward -- they're still carrying 15 some buses that predate that. 16 From a practical perspective who do need wheelchair lifts to access 17 the service, I'm going to encourage that you want to provide as much notice 18 as possible and be as specific as possible. You also want to ask about the 19 number of spaces; because even though they may be lift equipped, there may 20 be a number of people using it. Look out for your own travel experience 21 and provide as much notice as you can to them. Under the law, you're only 22 required to provide two days notice. 23 We're almost done with the legal bit, but I want to talk about some 24 ways to enhance your travel experiences. I've given you a few tips, and 25 I've talked about the law. I've talked about your rights under the Air 13 1 Carrier Access Act, and I've talked about current laws of the Americans 2 with Disabilities Act. 3 This probably leaves a lot of you questioning, well, what do I do? 4 Well I encourage you to be a good planner. Question the hotels and motels 5 about your mobility. It's better to have a paper trail if you choose to 6 enforce your rights later and file complaints with the Department of 7 Justice or Department of Transportation. 8 But on that note, is there anybody who can help you? And I have to 9 say that I ran across an organization that interested me, and it's called 10 SATH. And it's the Society for Accessible Travel and Hospitality. SATH is 11 an organization for travel and hospitality professionals for those industry 12 providers that are interested in providing a fair and equitable and 13 accessible travel and experience for people with disabilities. The 14 organization is over 30 years old. I had an opportunity to interview one 15 of the officers, since I really never heard of the organization. And I 16 don't like to endorse just random Web sites that I find on the Internet. 17 But I had a chance to have a lengthy conversation with one of the SATH 18 officers and talked about what their mission was. They started as an 19 advocacy organization that contributed to a great deal of input into the 20 Americans with Disabilities Act and when the various federal agencies were 21 requesting input from industry providers. 22 In addition, they focus on education of those providers and they offer 23 continuing education training credits for those travel and hospitality 24 professionals who want to avail themselves to that type of training. They 25 try to work specifically with the large scale industry providers on a 14 1 number of initiatives to create internal training programs and to provide 2 materials to them -- including a very rich content on their Web site. So 3 without any hesitancy now, I can endorse the SATH Web site. It's sath.org. 4 And I think, more importantly, is a list of member providers or the fact 5 that your travel provider, if they are a member, might be more likely 6 sensitive to the needs of a traveler with disabilities. And certainly, you 7 can talk to someone about your specific concerns. Now, that being said, I 8 would encourage you to -- when you deal with a travel provider -- to ask 9 very specifically about their knowledge about accessible travel, the 10 realities, the law, and certain requirements; also to go over your specific 11 needs. I encourage you to get a response from anyone you're paying about 12 your travel in writing. 13 I think specifically about an individual who was taking an extended 14 European cruise from a U.S. destination -- and that brings me back to 15 cruise ships, which I didn't cover. The Americans with Disabilities Act 16 was determined to cover the services provided by cruise ships, those who 17 are flagged in another country by the U.S., for example in Iran and Bermuda 18 and other countries that act as flag countries. But even those cruise 19 ships that are flagged in foreign countries so long as they're providing 20 service and they're embarking passengers from a U.S. port are covered under 21 the ADA. Now that was the result of a Supreme Court decision on a case 22 that came out of Houston. However, it didn't provide a full set of clear 23 guidelines as to what and how much a cruise ship is required to provide in 24 the way of services. Nor did it specifically address how they are to be 25 designed and constructed. 15 1 Generally, we know that Title 3 of the Americans with Disabilities Act 2 covers cruise ships, but I think of one individual who booked a trip to 3 Europe. They had received some assurances that some of their destinations 4 were inaccessible and others weren't. They didn't go any further than 5 that. What they come to find out was some of their destinations were 6 accessible, meaning that they can be put on the dock; but they would not be 7 met by a wheelchair equipped over-the-road vehicle and taken into town. So 8 they could tour around the port as much as they wanted. But in terms of 9 enjoying the inner city or being able to get into Paris, they weren't. So 10 you need to be very specific about those set of circumstances, and you need 11 to get your travel agent or your travel provider nailed down on what is 12 going to be accessible and what is not. 13 To be honest, not every foreign port of call is going to be 14 accessible. Some of them disembark passengers in small tender boats, which 15 are never going to be accessible to some people with certain disabilities. 16 Ideally, the provider won't be booking into those ports of call, but that 17 just happens. And it's unclear how far the regulations are going to reach. 18 I think I've got one other thing to talk about. What about 19 restaurants and clubs? Every time I travel, I see an opportunity to eat 20 out. DC is not so much about the Smithsonian or the Washington monument as 21 it is to the vast array of restaurants that I can avail myself of. 22 If you know you're going to be booking into a particular restaurant, 23 it's better to call ahead and ask about your particular needs. Maybe you 24 need assistance with a menu because of your vision disability. Or that you 25 utilize a larger powered wheelchair for your mobility, and you're going to 16 1 need to ensure that you can enter, navigate, and be seated at a table 2 within their restaurant. Notice is always a better thing. 3 But what do you do if you want to -- what other resources are out 4 there, I guess. And one that I never hesitate to recommend and I always 5 encourage people to participate in is the Wired on Wheels Web site. It's a 6 site for people with disabilities on the accessibility of restaurants and 7 clubs that is based on the cities entertainment engine, very similar to 8 city search -- if anybody's utilized that -- to check out restaurants in a 9 destination city. There's a list of restaurants by location, by city and 10 state. 11 There's an engine set up to rate accessibility. There's a form that 12 you can download and take with you to rate the accessibility. It's not a 13 complex ADA accessibility audit. It's a very straightforward -- were you 14 able to navigate it? Were you able to get assistance with the menu? It's 15 a very simple rating system. Some of the restaurants have not been 16 reviewed, and they encourage you to review them. Some restaurants have not 17 been added to the database, and they encourage you to contact them with the 18 information -- name and number, type of food they serve -- so that they 19 might add that to the data place. This is one place that people with 20 disabilities can really drive the point home with their money -- that 21 accessibility is important, and you can have impact that would improve 22 someone else's experience who checks it out. That Web site again is 23 wiredonwheels.org. I've been utilizing that site and checking it out for 24 over five years. 25 I think, Jacquie, at this point, I'm going to entertain some 17 1 questions. 2 >> Jacquie: We have lots of questions, Aaron. I don't know if 3 I've ever had as many as that. 4 Are there any requirements that hotels have rooms for those that are 5 blind or vision impairments? 6 >> Aaron: There's not specific regulations for the sleeping 7 rooms. Signage. There are certain requirements that are generally 8 required in new facilities and altered facilities under the Americans with 9 Disabilities Act, but I'm unaware of any specific requirement for sleeping 10 rooms. If they have a more specific question -- what it is they're 11 wanting, then I would encourage them to resubmit their question. 12 >> Jacquie: Here in Portland, Oregon, we've had several taxi 13 drivers who contract with local transportation services; and they refuse to 14 take someone who has a guide dog. Is there any recourse in these 15 situations? 16 >> Aaron: Absolutely. That's a fairly common problem. 17 They're required to provide it. I would encourage them to certainly 18 complain with the local transportation authority since, again, this is a 19 contracting provider. I would also complain with the private company that 20 has the contract. I would encourage them that this is a service animal -- 21 to try at the very beginning to indicate to the driver that this is a 22 service animal, it's not a pet. It's highly trained. At least avail 23 yourself with the complaints with the local transportation authorities and 24 the provider. 25 In addition, you can file a complaint with the Department of 18 1 Transportation or the Department of Justice. 2 >> Jacquie: An airport limo service attempted to charge me 3 private limo rates due to me having a guide dog. What are the remedies to 4 this scenario? 5 >> Aaron: Private limo -- if it's acting as a taxi cab, it 6 needs to provide the same rates as a taxi cab. If it doesn't, then I would 7 complain. I would check if it's a big enough city. I would probably file 8 a complaint with the HACA commission. 9 >> Jacquie: There are several questions on this one. Please 10 address the excess cost of renting vehicles equipped for power wheelchair 11 transport versus the cost of an average Joe to rent a car. 12 >> Aaron: That's apples and oranges. For those rent-a-car 13 companies that provide, for example, hand controls, they do not charge 14 extra for those services if they provide hand controls. For someone who's 15 renting a wheelchair accessible van, that is a radically different service. 16 So I really can't comment on the cost difference. It's going to be 17 significantly more expensive. 18 >> Jacquie: If a hotel provides a free airport shuttle, do 19 they have to provide the same service to me as a wheelchair user? 20 >> Aaron: Here's the deal. If they provide the service, they 21 need to provide some service to you. If it's a large enough vehicle, it 22 should be wheelchair equipped. But they should be providing something for 23 you. Now, that may be an alternative service revision. They may be 24 ordering and paying from a wheelchair equipped taxi cab because they only 25 have a small van. But if they offer the service, it should be made 19 1 available to you. 2 That's a huge failing of any number of lodging providers who provide 3 those airport shuttles. In downtown urban areas, those shuttles that take 4 hotel clients to area clubs and restaurants -- even those need to be made 5 accessible. If you're anticipating that as a need though, you probably -- 6 knowing that's going to be an issue -- you want to provide them as much 7 notice as possible and negotiate with them. The more time they have, the 8 more likely they'll come up with some solution. If they're in a town that 9 has fleet accessible taxi cabs, that you negotiate with them to provide 10 that service for free or supplement that cost somehow. 11 >> Jacquie: Why are some accessible parking spaces not close 12 to the entrance of the establishment? 13 >> Aaron: Bad design would be my answer. Typically, some of 14 them -- I'm going to say particularly in hotels and in downtown destination 15 resorts -- there are, maybe, a number of vehicular paths that they need to 16 travel. They require that it be accessible parking, be on an accessible 17 route into the main entrances of a facility. Regrettably, a lot of larger 18 facilities avail themselves of no parking adjacent to the building -- no 19 wrap-a-building with a fire protection zone -- that's really not required 20 under the law. I don't have an answer except that it's poor planning or 21 design. It's generally not deliberate. 22 >> Jacquie: I agree. I have an announcement to our Web cast 23 people. We're having a flood here. If we're suddenly not here, then 24 that's what happened and, we'll be ending our Web cast early without any 25 warning. I just wanted to let you know that. 20 1 Does the personal attendant have to pay a full fare ticket on buses 2 like Greyhound? 3 >> Aaron: Typically, yes. 4 >> Jacquie: Can air carriers, specifically foreign air 5 carriers get a doctor's note -- this last time for the person with the 6 consumer agency assist. Any word of wisdom what to do if and when this 7 happens again? 8 >> Aaron: The only time I've heard that come up is when 9 there's a concern about communicable diseases in which I think has made 10 lately in regards to TB and recent careless behavior on individuals in this 11 country. Again, it's kind of unclear. You can't refuse to provide 12 transportation, generally, and you're not supposed to require a medical 13 certificate under most circumstances. My concern would be that if you have 14 a disabling impacting disease that is communicable, that you do everything 15 in advance to provide notice that you can. The only out that someone 16 has -- and here's the crux of it -- is even with the proper treatment or 17 medical approach, carriers can certainly invoke the, quote, direct threat 18 out that both the ADA and the Air Carrier Access Act gives them. It has to 19 be based on an individualized assessment. They have to ascertain the 20 nature of the disease process -- the severity -- and they have to know the 21 potential risk and safety to other passengers. The mere fear that they may 22 occur is insignificant. A certainty that someone's presence with a 23 communicable disease will place other passengers at risk is a certainty. 24 Merely having a positive TB test -- and I don't know how they would become 25 aware of that, except perhaps in foreign air travel -- merely have a 21 1 positive TB test and then to find out you don't have it won't be a 2 sufficient reason. It's a balancing test, and I would encourage you, if 3 you know it's going to become an issue, to provide as much notice as 4 possible to the air carrier so that you can ensure a quick clearance 5 through security. 6 But again this is only under our law. Foreign carriers with their own 7 destination-to-destinationissues may, depending on the law, absolutely 8 discriminate against you. 9 >> Jacquie: This one is from New York. You said that we are 10 required to give 48 hour notice when a lift bus is needed. Two summers ago 11 I traveled Greyhound which said we needed 7 days notice. The trip was 12 delayed two hours because they had not scheduled a lift bus. My question 13 is why 7 days notice? 14 >> Aaron: Because you were lied to. The settlement says that 15 they should only require 48 hours. So if this was just last year, you were 16 lied to or they misinterpreted what they could require for you. In the 17 future, if you utilize this service, you need to remind them to look at 18 their own Web site, which says 4 hours. 19 >> Jacquie: I got two that are similar issues. One is do 20 travelers have the right to bring about their comfort animals on trains, 21 planes, and buses; and if so, do they have to be in carriers? I have a 22 comfort animal, and I need her with me at all times. Can hotels charge me 23 extra for having her there? 24 >> Aaron: The answer is sort of no and definitely yes. 25 >> Jacquie: No, they don't have a right to bring along comfort 22 1 animals, and definitely yes, they can charge extra. 2 >> Aaron: Someone may have an animal that provides them with 3 additional comfort that they need due to their disability -- a comfort 4 animal. It may have a significant impact on them. But it's still 5 providing the same type of relationship that a pet does with somebody 6 without the disability. It's not a service animal as defined under the 7 Americans with Disabilities Act or the Air Carrier Access Act. They have 8 tried to draw a too broad of a line of what the distinction between those 9 are. You should be allowed to travel with your animals to the extent that 10 they let other people. If they require a carrier, then they should let you 11 have a carrier. If they require that it be stowed and be in a hard carrier 12 and actually be in the baggage, then that's where it has to be. 13 The second answer was if I have an emotional support animal, can the 14 hotel charge me more for it? If the hotel allows people to bring pets but 15 charges them a pet deposit, then they're allowed to charge you for the 16 emotional support animal. They are not allowed to charge you that for a 17 service animal. My concern about it is just the fact that hotels call it a 18 pet deposit when it's a pet fee. You generally don't get it back. 19 >> Jacquie: This is actually some more information from the 20 very first question I asked about -- accessible hotel rooms for people who 21 have visual impairments. And she says she's talking about alarm clocks, 22 tactile fire safety plan, braille hot and cold faucets, braille room 23 service menus, large button phones, braille labels for hooking up the 24 computer, braille or talking thermostats, et cetera. 25 >> Aaron: Some of that stuff yes, and some of that stuff no. 23 1 They are required to have braille signage and regulator signage. They are 2 not required to provide special equipment related to visual impairment. 3 They would be required to direct you to the closest place to toilet your 4 service animal. They would be required, at request, to get those kinds of 5 services. They are not required under the current law for braille faucets. 6 So if you have a concern about that, make that a part of your room tour 7 request. These are things -- assuming their reasonable -- they should be 8 providing. 9 The regrettable part about this is that the hotels are staffed by one 10 person at the desk. It would probably be considered unreasonable for them 11 to be providing all these services at this time just because that's the way 12 those business class hotels tend to be staffed. But a lot of what you're 13 requesting, you would merely have to invoke. 14 I would encourage you, again, to contact the hotel and tell them you 15 need the kinds of things you're going to need and provide them with the 16 kind of notice you need. You may not be required to do so under law, but 17 it's going to ease your travel experience. My perspective on it is this: 18 Not enough people with disabilities avail themselves to their rights to 19 enforce their complaints. A lot of them seem to be hesitant to ask for 20 these services. If they really need it, do so in advance. I'm going to 21 encourage you that you're going to ease your travel experience and enhance 22 it by providing notice. I don't give my money to people who violate my 23 rights. If they don't want to work with me, I don't want to spend my money 24 to that organization. They don't deserve it. I'm going to step off my 25 soap box now. 24 1 >> Jacquie: Thank you. Okay. We've got another one. I have 2 a service animal -- a guide dog. I don't often have problems when I 3 travel. But two weeks ago, I was denied access to a bar in Georgia. And 4 they said it was because there were peanut shells on the floor, and it 5 might hurt my dog's feet. Is that reasonable? 6 >> Aaron: It was nice for them to provide notice about that. 7 But did you walk across a gravel walkway to get there? I'm joking. No, it 8 was not reasonable to deny you access to that bar. I would remind them 9 that you're willing to take the risk with that animal, that you're 10 responsible, fully knowing it. Thank you for the notice, but I'm coming 11 in. That's pretty much it. 12 >> Jacquie: Has anything changed regarding the use of portable 13 oxygen in airplanes? I understand that airlines force you to pay for their 14 oxygen tanks. 15 >> Aaron: Some of them do, some of them don't. All of them 16 require that you have certain types of tanks that will meet certain safety 17 requirements. Some airlines have chosen to basically require that if 18 you're going to utilize it, that you utilize theirs, and they'll still 19 charge you for it. 20 >> Jacquie: Do all rental car agencies have to have wheelchair 21 accessible vehicles in their fleet? 22 >> Aaron: None of them have to. 23 >> Jacquie: I use a wheelchair. Does the air carrier have to 24 provide me with any onboard assistance, for example, if I have to use the 25 restroom? 25 1 >> Aaron: Yes, they're required to help you board, disembark, 2 and help you into the bathroom using an aisle chair, typically. 3 >> Jacquie: Does that extend to help in the bathroom? 4 >> Aaron: Not at all. 5 >> Jacquie: To the bathroom. 6 When a person in a wheelchair deplanes and needs to be transported 7 from one terminal to another to catch a plane, who is responsible for 8 providing the transportation inside the terminal or between the terminal? 9 >> Aaron: If that's part of your booked trip, then the air 10 carrier needs to arrange for that with whoever in the airport handles that. 11 >> Jacquie: How should I view a foreign carrier in terms of 12 ADA or ACAA obligations? Are there any factors that change the scope of 13 our laws in terms of applying to a foreign carrier? 14 >> Aaron: Well, as I mentioned, we have the Department of 15 Transportation which indicates that the ACAA -- with regards to the 16 terminal -- the ADA is going to affect that to the extent that Virgin 17 Atlantic leases some terminal space. They need to make sure the terminal 18 is accessible. The Air Carrier Access Act, with regards to domestic, picks 19 up from that point. The ACAA attends to carriers that provide foreign 20 service, but they have not created regulations to detail what they are. So 21 it's unclear. I would encourage you, when you're dealing with foreign air 22 carriers, to contact them directly. 23 Depending on the country of origin, they may have similar laws to the 24 Americans with Disabilities Act. The British equivalent isn't quite as 25 equivalent. Australia's law is in some ways even more robust. Again, I 26 1 would encourage you to spend your money with a carrier that's going to 2 provide you with a service you need. 3 Now, that's a secondary consideration. I don't know about all of you, 4 but I usually take the cheapest flight. I would contact the carrier 5 personally and ask them what my experience is going to be like and can they 6 promise me that and get it in writing. 7 >> Jacquie: I'm not sure what this question is. Does a 8 transport provider have to provide their agreement with you in writing? 9 >> Aaron: Do they have to provide their agreement in writing? 10 Are they required in the regulations? No. But most of them will send you 11 something or point you to a place on their Web site or will point you to 12 language on the ticket. Certainly, if you're dealing with a travel agent 13 and you're booking specific things, you are paying for destinations; and 14 you're paying enhancements to the cost of the cruise to disembark at a 15 certain location and to take advantage, for example, of a tour of a 16 Normandy Coast. You can seek assurances from them. If they're not going 17 to assure me a certain level of accessibility, I'm not going to spend my 18 money with them. 19 >> Jacquie: This is from a power chair user. Rarely do I 20 encounter a hotel room that has a desk that I can get under. Does the 21 hotel need to change their furniture to accommodate me? 22 >> Aaron: It depends. If you're chair conforms to the 23 footprint of a regular wheelchair as defined under the ADA, then yes. If 24 it doesn't -- a lot of mobility aids were conceived and designed after the 25 guidelines. I'm going to say in most cases, no. Is it reasonable for them 27 1 to potentially block up the desk higher? I would suggest that they would 2 want to provide some blocks. Do they have to buy different furniture? No. 3 I may be reading something into this. But my guess is that your chair 4 is not a typical chair, if you're having problems getting under the desk. 5 >> Jacquie: Can a transportation company charge for two seats 6 or require you to purchase a first-class ticket if you're overweight? 7 >> Aaron: This has been tested. And if you're talking about 8 an air carrier or a bus provider, it's unclear. They're certainly getting 9 away with it. Southwest airlines is basically providing a -- essentially, 10 if you can't utilize the seat belt without an extension and you don't 11 extend into -- you extend into other seats -- then they can ask you to buy 12 two tickets. 13 Obesity is not a disability by itself. The things that may go along 14 and under certain circumstances with obesity, it may actually equal a 15 disability. 16 >> Jacquie: In this case, the person uses a power wheelchair 17 but is able to transfer to a seat. 18 >> Aaron: It's a separate issue. They have to accommodate you 19 with regards to your wheelchair. I'm just going to tell you, depending on 20 the carrier, they have a policy. Some carriers will accommodate bigger 21 passengers, and there have been some lawsuits challenging this. The DOT 22 hasn't decided one way or the other, and I don't think they're interested 23 in that discussion. The vast majority of travelers are very happy about 24 it. So the industry doesn't have much of an incentive to reverse their 25 change. 28 1 >> Jacquie: This is an employment question but has to do with 2 travel. Does my employer have to cover travel expenses if I need a family 3 member or aid to travel with me? 4 >> Aaron: It depends. Family member, no. Personal assistance 5 services, possibly. But they would probably never have to cover all the 6 expenses. That's a complex question that I prefer to deal with one-on-one 7 and get more facts. Could you send me an e-mail with that question in more 8 detail? I don't want to misstate it or oversimplify it on the Web cast 9 because it gets more complex. 10 >> Jacquie: Can a transportation company deny you service if 11 your child with autism is having a tantrum? 12 >> Aaron: Not as a general rule, no. But any transportation 13 provider can invoke a direct threat. Does it appear that that child may 14 pose a legitimate risk of harm to itself or others under these 15 circumstances? And if so, they can deny access to their services, at least 16 while that child is having a tantrum. If a child is merely having a 17 behavior issue that is nonthreatening, they can't. They have to make an 18 assessment based on a legitimate risk and not just on their fear of what 19 they would perceive as bizarre. 20 >> Jacquie: Are there some carriers out there that are more 21 sensitive than others? 22 >> Aaron: Yes, there are. I hesitate to name them because 23 that's sort of like endorsing. That's why I was hesitant to mention SATH 24 and Wired on Wheels until I talked to them. There are, and I'm going to 25 encourage -- go to their Web sites and see how fast they respond to you. I 29 1 can name two or three that are much better than others. I hesitate to name 2 them because, to be honest, you can have a seat change in administration 3 within any given provider; and they could change their policy. I mentioned 4 Southwest as somebody who hates chubby people because that's publicized. 5 >> Jacquie: Someone wrote in to just say, please tell 6 listeners that they have CRO's and every air carrier is required to have 7 one at the airport during any time that the air carrier is operating. 8 Sometimes that can be a quick way to resolve problems that come up, sort of 9 when you're there at the last minute when you need to continue your travel 10 plans. They just wanted to make sure that everyone knew about the CRO's 11 and that DOT has an 800 number if you have problems at the airport, you can 12 call them directly. And I don't have that number. 13 >> Aaron: You can go to dot.gov and get their number from 14 there. 15 That's something that can't be resolved quickly, and you have a lot of 16 hesitance. Every air carrier does have a CRO that should be available. 17 Like I said, your experiences are going to vary. 18 >> Jacquie: Are there any animals who are prohibited by the 19 ADA to be service animals? 20 >> Aaron: No. The ADA does not define what animal can be 21 service animals. However, this has emboldened people to seek different 22 animals in different circumstances. I'm not going to argue with those fans 23 of one or the other. I don't have a bull in that fight. There are some 24 animals that are inappropriate with people with disabilities. It just has 25 to be an animal that's legally trained. 30 1 >> Jacquie: Where do my rights come in as a person who suffers 2 from severe allergies if service animals are allowed to be next to me on a 3 plane for several hours? 4 >> Aaron: You can be relocated. But they're not going to deny 5 a person with a service animal access. That's been one of the conflicts in 6 the Air Carrier Access Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act and one 7 that's hard to resolve in any circumstances. 8 Imagine the workplace. Imagine any number of facilities. Hotel rooms 9 are another one. If you have a severe animal dander allergy, no matter how 10 well they clean a hotel room, it maybe not be clean enough for you. Your 11 rights will be respected to the extent that they don't impinge on someone 12 else's. That's about it. I don't have a good answer for you except if you 13 make it known that it's an issue and that your allergy arises to the level 14 of the disability, then they may need to accommodate you to a different 15 location. They are going to tend to put the animals on a bulkhead seat. 16 >> Jacquie: Well, I think we made it through all the questions 17 to me. Thank you so much, Aaron. I do want to tell everybody that Aaron 18 will be conducting three presentations at the ADA symposium May 12th 19 through 14th in Missouri. For more information, you can visit our Web site 20 at southwestada.org. 21 Please feel free to share the archives with your colleagues. They 22 will be available tomorrow at ilru.org. Please don't forgot to complete 23 the evaluation on the Web cast page. We are very interested in receiving 24 your input. Thanks to the National Institute on Disablity and 25 Rehabilitation Research, NIDRR, who is our sponsor today. Finally, this 31 1 Web cast would not be possible without the efforts of our Web cast team, 2 Rob Dickehuth and our captioner today, Daphne Baba. 3 Join us on Wednesday, March 12 on a discussion of returning to work 4 after a positive HIV notice. 5 Thank you for joining us today. Have a dazzling day. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25